descentchampions.org

2 homers? That changes athena too much imo. Can someone make AthenaPV? (perfect version) basically Athena gv but with 8 homers like the LH version has?

Hehe, I don't remember you complainin' when we played it.

Bear in mind the LH version we have now isn't the same LH version as from way back when. It's something Jinx threw together in 5 minutes from base Athena because we didn't HAVE an LH version and we NEEDED one. I don't know how many homers were in the old LH because I don't have it.

I think anything in the 2-8 range is reasonable for a homer loadout on Athena, and what you think is normal depends on whether your normal Athena is from the beginning of a match or the end. Personally, I think Athena was mainly popular BECAUSE of the missile catcher and the resulting primary-heavy play, but eh . . . I was a teenager back in the heyday, my memory's suspect.

Also, I really REALLY really REALLY really like the GV version best. Really.

Did I forget to complain out loud!? That doesn't usually happen

Nysa should stay full homers, though -- just my opinion as a pilot, but it's a strong opinion. I would very much like to hear what some other pilots think about Nysa, though.

To throw a further monkey wrench in the works with Athena . . .

Going by memory here, but I think the missile spawning algorithm worked by starting with a pyro, and then trying to put the missile some number of cubes away. Which means where the missiles spawn in a level depends on where you hang out. Which means those of us with different piloting styles may have had genuinely different experiences in old Athena. It's just speculation, but based on what I know of the code, I think it's possible -- maybe even likely -- that fighting mainly in the dog room would have made the missile catcher more efficient.

For roughly half of the game you had 16 homers...switching to 2 through out the game is no where near the same.

8 is reasonable.

10 per ship is what was intended by the creators of the game...or they wouldn't be able to hold that many at one time.

My recollection of Athena games back in the day is that it played like this in a 1v1:

Kills 1-3 -- homers and smarts galore. Both players have at least 4-5 homers and 2-3 smarts and let them fly aggressively.
Kills 4-6 -- homers and smarts reduced. By now, either the missile catcher or the death-drop limit (6 homers, 3 smarts) have removed most of the missiles from play. A judicious player might be able to cobble together 4 homers and 2 smarts.
Kills 7-10 -- two missiles still floating around. Use becomes very strategic.
Kills 11-17 -- primaries only.
Kill 18 -- somebody locates a stray smart or homer next to the reactor, the exit, or some other obscure corner of the level, and uses it strategically.
Kills 19-20 -- primaries only.

Two changes to the algorithm (broken missile catchers, full missile drops) mean that now Athena plays like this:

Kills 1-20 -- spam homers. Go find where they spawned. Repeat. (Obviously this is wrong, and wronger if you don't have retro homers.)

Having recently played Athena in 3 versions (original, LH, GV) I feel like the GV version most closely reflects what I remember Athena feeling like. I will second the caveat that a player who spends the majority of time in the door complex might remember there being more missiles late in a level (the missile catcher only works when neither player is close to it).

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Now, regarding NYSA: the full-homer version is and has always been the version that gets played. It's all about ambushes and flooding hallways and making it hard for people to chase you because there are 3 homers in the air and... low-homer NYSA is just weird.

And I do see indications that people still play it. It's not just Jeds or Drakona; others are at least agreeing to play them in those levels, and occasionally playing without either of them. It also doesn't feel that different to me from other levels with fewer missiles (like Logic). It's pretty ratty, and the homers do make a difference, but they don't dominate in the same way as they do in Athena (especially without retro homers).

Lothar, I really agree with that post in full now! Great explanations on both.