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In what way do I need to convince, or show anyone that certain aspects of the game we play now are not consistent with the descent we used to play?
and i bring up x2-x4 precisely because it's an OPTIONAL aspect in the game roncli, that's what we pushed for with the fusion fix as well, so people wouldn't be pressured into playing it a different way than what they were comfortable with.

Roncli, i mentioned these things when retro FIRST took off, just because i didn't post in the forums doesn't mean i haven't discussed it and asked for things to be a certain way, to be honest, all i want is for it to be exactly how d1x was, only in a modern shell. that would be fine enough for me, i'm not indicating that the game is broken beyond repair, even though some aspects feel horribly wrong compared to d1x, but still, i've played it alongside everyone else, and i know what i'm talking about.

Uh... I'm confused, what fusion fix are we talking about as an option again? I wouldn't characterize nerfing it to D2 levels as a "fix"... and it's certainly not how it used to be.

sirius, he is referencing how much the fusion forces your pyro to 'shake' the longer you hold it...if i'm not mistaken.

Making it potential much harder for people to learn to aim with it but also increasing crazy angles it can be shot with i think

I've thought about this a bit and thought I'd share my perspective, as a bit of an "outsider looking in", so to speak, since I haven't played in some time.

The rise of folks wanting to play with massive numbers of homers definitely was a factor in my realizing "Hey, I'm not having fun doing this (what was supposed to be a stress reliever / fun activity!). Why am I doing it?" The obvious answer is just not to play in X2 or X4 levels. I don't think reducing the effectiveness of homers is really relevant - you could always then play X10 and just hold the secondary button down the whole game!

The bigger issue, if it's okay to bring up here, is I think the pressure to play "one way". If folks don't like homers, the homers themselves shouldn't be changed - people should just play without them, or with less. The choice is already there, and they only become a huge problem for folks who dislike them if you play in a level chock full of them. That seems to be a trend lately, but was not historically for the most part (hence needing to add a multiplier to the number in a given level) with the exception of some lovable levels like Nysa, Minerva, Athena and the like.

I think the pressure to play a style you don't like is somewhat ingrained to the competitive Descent community, to truly "be the best". But there has been a bit of a narrowing of focus, to D1 (instead of both or all 3 games) and then to even a subset of that, D1 with a multiplied number of missiles. If someone enjoys that, they should totally go for it! But if not, they should just play levels that don't use a multiplier, and not feel pressure to play otherwise unless doing a "home and home" or "I pick, you pick" type of double header. Easy, done!

I also wanted to post this also in light of the new games coming - Descent Underground but especially Overload! If you've tried the latest demo, it feels like Descent 4. It's what I've been dreaming of!! But I'm really hopeful that if the competitive community embraces it upon its eventual multiplayer release, folks won't feel pressured to play "one way" - whether that is the most retro, the most options, etc. But if they (as I hope) release many game modes, styles of levels, and new weaponry, that folks will embrace competing in it as a new game with many options.

In some ways, this is something that separates older and newer games. Newer games tend to have Way more options and ways to play, and with a larger playerbase you can usually compete pretty heavily in a variety of them. It's harder, with an older game and smaller playerbase, to have the same diversity of competition in a game 2 decades old =). But when the new games are released and many players embrace them, I hope to see this community (the legends) do so, too!

But in the interim, imo - Don't like homers? Don't play X2 or X4, and have fun playing the styles and modes you enjoy =)

no one has to play x2 or x4...ever basically....they are not in the core level list.

No one makes you play them but you are called an asshole if you don't (by some people.) You can just read match history to see that. Then the family jumps in on the bandwagon. Yeah, no one makes you play them. They just talk down to you and so on.

I was hoping to keep this as more of a constructive discussion - it's easy enough to say "I pick, you pick", or even "I'm not interested in playing missile multiplier levels".

The bigger picture, is with Overload and Underground coming next year and likely bringing awesome new ways to play (along with a ton of new players who want to experience the various modes / game types they offer to the fullest), being open and embracing that will be a very good thing for the community! I really can't wait =)

Whatever has been said between people in the past about level selection, please leave it in the past.

I'll say this about missiles in the present: they matter, but in small numbers they're not a dominant factor. It's not like playing D2 with dual Voodoo 2 SLI cards where a single homer in a large room was a guaranteed hit because you couldn't ever break the lock. Homing missiles can be dodged, even in quantity. Smart missiles can be dodged, even in quantity, even when they explode at very close range. And you have greater than ever control over exactly how many missiles are in any game -- options like mcap 2 or 6, x2, 3, or 4, and the ability to remove individual missile types. Use the settings you already have to get the level of challenge you want. We don't need to fiddle with the physics for that.

Exactly - changing missile settings to incentivize using more of them is the wrong way to approach the problem, I think, when you can just adjust the numbers to whatever you like (none, standard, multiple, etc). Regarding challenge, LESS missiles might actually be the greater challenge in some instances - just look at facing Mark392 in his home!

Obviously, unless doing a "home and home" type arrangement, no one should feel pressured to use no missiles, anymore than they should feel pressured to use multipliers. Two sides of the same coin and it's easiest to just leave it on default if folks have different preferences (and aren't doing home defenses or alternating picks).

Mostly though I just can't wait for the world to get turned on its head with Overload weapons... so far I've found them super satisfying and different enough to be refreshing. 2017 is going to be epic for 6DOF!